Justin Harlan | Tulsa Remote
Today, in the Tulsa is Home Podcast, Roderick Hands discusses the Tulsa Remote initiative with Justin Harlan, highlighting Tulsa’s effort to attract remote knowledge workers by offering $10,000 incentives to move and work in Tulsa for a year. The initiative began in 2018, bringing in thousands of new residents, significantly impacting the local economy, creating over 1,300 jobs, and generating $500 million in revenue. The discussion covers the program’s development, its economic benefits, community integration challenges, and future goals to attract more remote workers and enhance local networking opportunities.
Guest: Justin Harlan, Tulsa Remote
00:00 Introduction to Tulsa’s Knowledge Worker Initiative
01:15 Welcome to the Tulsa’s Home Podcast
01:50 Meet Justin Harlan: Tulsa Remote Initiative
03:16 The Birth and Growth of Tulsa Remote
04:54 Economic Impact and Success Stories
06:16 Application Process and Member Experience
07:43 Comparing Tulsa Remote to Other Programs
08:22 Pandemic’s Influence and Economic Development Strategy
14:38 Community Impact and Research Insights
20:52 Why Tulsa is Home
Contact Information:
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Email: info@tulsaremote.com
Transcript:
Justin Harlan: [00:00:00] In an economy that’s kind of always been built on and reliant on oil and gas, uh, we really needed knowledge workers. And so we said, what if we put out a call to knowledge workers in the form of remote workers across the country and said, we’ll give you 10, 000. You come and do your remote job in Tulsa for a year.
Justin Harlan: Um, and almost overnight, you know, there was about 10, 000 applications, a huge reception, a lot of very free media. across the country and, um, really put Tulsa on the map in a different way. And then of course the pandemic happened.
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Roderick Hands: Welcome to another episode of the Tulsa’s Home Podcast. Uh, today, uh, we’re, it’s a little bit different format. Uh, we get to sit down, uh, with Justin Harlan, uh, with the Tulsa Remote Initiative. And, uh, so, you know, it’s not a business ownership, but you are heavily invested in the Tulsa business community.
Roderick Hands: And, uh, I, I feel like I have a ton of questions, um, and then people, uh, that we talked to even from out of, out of state. He always asks me about the Tulsa Remote Program and, um, so hopefully this will help educate me and then also viewers and listeners to some of the details and all that. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Roderick Hands: and how you got involved with Tulsa Remote. Sure. Um, thanks
Justin Harlan: for having me today. I appreciate the opportunity to get the word out. So, I’ve [00:02:00] been in Tulsa for about 20 years. Um, grew up in the Kansas City area. Uh, went to school at the University of Tulsa, which is what brought me down here in 2004. Um, graduated from college and started working in non profits.
Justin Harlan: So, helped start the region for Teach for America here in Tulsa. Expanded that across the state. Um, worked there for about seven and a half years. And then led an organization called Reading Partners, which is a literacy, um, organization that’s focused on leveraging volunteers to help young kids across the city learn to read.
Justin Harlan: Um, the COVID, like, drastically changed that model, and so we kind of were, uh, having to revamp our curriculum and recruit. You know, volunteers in a different way on zoom. And so a lot of changes got through that. And there was really just kind of ready for something different. And I’d always, uh, you know, worked directly with the George Kaiser Family Foundation and always really been focused on talent attraction through Teach for America or even reading partners through our AmeriCorps programs.
Justin Harlan: And so. You know, I’ve really become [00:03:00] passionate about just like getting people here and helping them see the beauty and magic of this place. And, um, there was a opportunity to help Tulsa remote grow and scale responsibly coming out of the pandemic and experiencing a lot of growth. And so I jumped at that opportunity and haven’t looked back.
Justin Harlan: So it’s been great. So when, when did Tulsa remote officially start? So the idea was born in 2018. Okay. Um, first group of folks came in in 2019 and really it was an effort to diversify our economy and build up a workforce that’s resilient for the future, you know, at the time. And obviously a very different world feels like ages ago, but it was, uh, pre covid.
Justin Harlan: Yeah, exactly. Is everything. There’s only about 1 percent of the workforce that was working remotely, but we knew that a good majority of the remote workers at that time were knowledge workers, which is in an economy that’s kind of always been built on and reliant on oil and gas. Uh, we really needed knowledge workers.
Justin Harlan: And so we said, what if we put out a call to knowledge workers in the form of remote workers across the country and said, We’ll give [00:04:00] you 10, 000. You come and do your remote job in Tulsa for a year. Um, and almost overnight, you know, there was about 10, 000 applications, a huge reception, a lot of very free media across the country and, um, really put Tulsa on the map in a different way.
Justin Harlan: And then of course the pandemic happened, you know, and it’s like, all right, now our, you know, our, our pool of people are target audiences. So huge. And so how do we capitalize on that? Um, and so in that first year, 2019, there was about 70 people that came. 2020 was about 380. 2021 was about 950. And then we just surpassed 3, 500 folks that have moved to Tulsa through the program.
Justin Harlan: And that doesn’t include, you know, spouses and kids and family members, which we can dive into, but it’s, you know, obviously in a lot of ways kind of right place, right time. But also I think It was an opportunity to really showcase what Tulsa had to offer folks that may not have given it a look to begin with.
Roderick Hands: So I saw a stat on there, and I don’t know if it was a recent stat or older, but over [00:05:00] 500 million of revenue for the city coming in through the program?
Justin Harlan: Yeah, the economic impact has been incredible. So this is as of the end of 2023, so we’re actually right now when we’re recording this kind of in the midst of pulling numbers for 2024, which we’ll have more on that soon.
Justin Harlan: But as of the end of 2023, there was about 500 million in direct labor income. So that’s just salaries, you know, people were bringing in. We also know that for every 10, 000 that we’re spending on the foundation, there’s about a 12, 13 return on that investment to the city. Um, which is awesome. And what I think is relevant, especially for a local audience is.
Justin Harlan: You know, we’re bringing in jobs that, you know, people are not taking from others because they’ve got remote jobs. And adding a job to the economy, well of course those high earners, which is typically who we’re bringing in, are then going to go spend their money at coffee shops or bars and have hotel rooms that are reserved or concert tickets.
Justin Harlan: And all of that creates labor demand. So you got to hire more people at a local level in order to support that spending. And we know that there’s [00:06:00] been about 1, 300 jobs created at a local level because of the spending of all the jobs we’re bringing in. So, you know, just the ripple effect of the program is really something that obviously when we were 70 people, we had no idea it would get to this size and scale, but it’s really been an amazing thing for the city economically.
Roderick Hands: Yeah.
Justin Harlan: So with,
Roderick Hands: uh, you had about 10, 000 applicants right off the bat, um, but then only you said 75. How does that, were they not accepted, did not qualify on some level, or did they just kind of end up not? Yeah. Pulling the trigger on
Justin Harlan: it. Well, you, I could probably answer that question a number of different ways, kind of depending on the year of the program.
Justin Harlan: I’ll tell you how it works now. I mean, I would say the vast majority of folks that apply, if you meet our basic eligibility requirements, which is you have to be 18 years old, you have to have a full time remote job and you have to have lived outside of the state of Oklahoma for at least a year. The vast majority, if you apply and get through the application, you’re going to get an interview.
Justin Harlan: Which is about a 20 30 minute, um, conversation with one of our staff members. And then, [00:07:00] you’re most likely also going to get invited to come. Which then is when the hard part begins. You know, we then invite people to come on a visit. We actually pay 500 for them to come and visit Tulsa. We show them around for about 48 hours.
Justin Harlan: Or you can come on your own and we reimburse you for that too. But then it’s, you know, have actually having somebody pack up their life and decide to relocate here that I think is kind of the hardest conversion. Um, but at this point we’ve gotten pretty good at like who we’re looking for, what are the qualities in the person that we want to see, and then moving those people through as quickly as we can so that they’re looking forward to in a city.
Justin Harlan: And then, you know, when they’re here and they visit, we try to give them a realistic picture of what Tulsa has to offer. So then they can make that informed decision as an adult and decide what’s best for them.
Roderick Hands: Awesome.
Justin Harlan: Yeah.
Roderick Hands: Are there other cities that do this?
Justin Harlan: Yeah. Yeah. There’s about 70 programs like this now across the country.
Justin Harlan: There’s not any that I would say are a city that’s as amazing as Tulsa. I mean, we definitely have some advantages as it relates to just quality of life. A lot of them are smaller [00:08:00] towns or, um, you know, just different cities. And then, uh, we also obviously have the benefit of having the foundation dollars in partnership with state funding, which.
Justin Harlan: I think just allows us to kind of scale and provide resources that other programs can’t. So the next biggest program that we’re seeing is around a couple hundred folks that they’ve moved. And like I mentioned earlier, we’re, we’re closer to
Roderick Hands: 3, 500. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. The timing of, of the, just the, the pandemic and all the remote working.
Roderick Hands: That’s just that’s kind of crazy. Yeah.
Justin Harlan: Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of things that really suffered during the pandemic, obviously, but it was great for, you know, toilet paper or whatever else we were running out of at the grocery store. Great for Tiger King, you know, great for Tulsa remote, you know, but, uh, obviously a lot of, a lot of rough things came out of that too, but it really was an opportunity, I think, for cities to ask themselves, like, you know, Is the traditional economic development strategy the right one?
Justin Harlan: And obviously it’s traditionally been businesses. We’re going to roll out incentives for businesses in [00:09:00] hopes of getting businesses here. And what happens then when a business leaves, you typically are having those jobs leave with them. You know, this is, I think, really a, um, we shouldn’t take lightly the risk that we took in saying, you know what, we’re going to try things a little differently.
Justin Harlan: Let’s go after the individual, um, that can bring their job with them. And in bringing 3, 500 individuals, we now know that there’s going to be some that leave. It’s just not going to be a good fit for them or whatever else, but we still know we’re maintaining 90 percent of those folks in year two. And there’s a bit of turnover from there, but we know that.
Justin Harlan: The vast majority of people who came since 2019 are still here today. And that’s a far less risky, um, economic development model, which has really helped also be resilient even through the pandemic. For sure.
Roderick Hands: Yeah. So how do you get the word out to so many people nationwide so quickly like that? Was it a lot of just other news?
Roderick Hands: nationwide news outlets?
Justin Harlan: Yeah. Yeah. I would say initially it was kind of this idea that a city was paying you to move there and it really had never been seen before and that got a lot of attention. [00:10:00] Um, we’ve figured out, you know, new ways to kind of get that, you know, story in front of folks. Now it’s like about telling the member stories.
Justin Harlan: Who are the folks that are moving to Tulsa and what what were they looking for? And yeah, you know, what have they found to actually receive? And then now we’re kind of, I’d say, entering into this new phase which is like We have research, we have data, you know, the economic data that says how the city is benefiting, the tax dollars, we have the local jobs.
Justin Harlan: You know, there’s a number of ways that we’re contributing to the local economy, and so now there’s other cities that are saying, Oh man, it wasn’t this cool, kitschy concept, but it’s actually something that’s paying dividends for the city. Like, how could we replicate this? And so, I’d say there’s been multiple phases.
Justin Harlan: At the heart of it has always been our members stories and our ability to tell those well, and we try to do that through a number of different ways and platforms, whether it’s national media or just local blogs and podcasts. Yeah, so a quick plug for your podcast, what’s it called? Yeah, so we do a podcast that you can look up called Remote Revelations.
Justin Harlan: We [00:11:00] typically tell members stories. We also talk a bit about, uh, You know, the remote worker tips and tricks and, um, we do kind of a number of different, you know, sub brands within that overall podcast. But you can find us on Spotify or, you know, Apple Music, wherever you find your podcasts. It’s a lot of fun.
Roderick Hands: Awesome. Um, are there any particular partnerships, whether business wise or maybe one of your members that you’re just particularly proud of that’s really stands out. And you’re like, yeah, that’s, this is a, an exact success story of, of what we’re after.
Justin Harlan: Yeah. I mean, to me, I would say that the most natural partnership is with.
Justin Harlan: What used to be called 36 Degrees North is now they just rebranded to Gradient and opened up a beautiful new facility, 115, 000 square foot. Um, you know, all of our members get 36 months of membership dues covered at Gradient. It’s going to take me a little bit to get used to that name change. But, uh, and [00:12:00] I’d say that that has really helped, you know, the community that we’re looking for come to life in different ways where we’re really focused on.
Justin Harlan: Out of office hours, you know, how do you get people to connect to organizations or people that are going to help them plant roots here in the city? We also can lean on and rely on Gradient to say, we’re actually doing a lot of the same stuff during the business day. And, you know, even just as a remote worker, often feeling isolated, working out of your home.
Justin Harlan: You know, oftentimes those types of spaces can kind of open up those different collisions that might lead to something
Roderick Hands: beautiful. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. Um, so we talked about membership growth. Um, what’s on the horizon for? Uh, the program Tulsa Remote and, uh, is there anything, uh, this year that’s gonna be different or, uh, are there goals that, that you guys have set for reaching people?
Justin Harlan: Yeah, we, we certainly have goals. Um, you know, we’re hoping to bring in another 700 folks this year, um, in 2025. We also are thinking Compared to how
Roderick Hands: many last year was that?
Justin Harlan: About the same. Okay. Yeah, about the same. Um, we obviously are focused on retention too. It’s not just about getting people here, but [00:13:00] keeping them around in Tulsa.
Justin Harlan: But, you know, I think bigger scale. And I think more applicable to the folks listening to this, we’re really considering what has worked well with Tulsa remote and how do we expand that to more Tulsans, you know, and at the heart of what has made us successful is, um, not just the fact that we’re paying people to move here.
Justin Harlan: I mean, that gets them here that might get their attention. It might cover those moving costs, but at the end of the day, what’s keeping people around is this place and the connections and community that we’re able to. And so for us, we’re just thinking about like, how do we do that for more people and not just have access limited to a certain few to networking opportunities or social, um, opportunities, but really expand that to more Tulsans.
Justin Harlan: And so we are growing and building the work that experience Tulsa has done. You might’ve seen them in social media, if not go check them out on Instagram, but they’ve kind of started with a series of interviews with famous Tulsans that, uh, That kind of telling folks, you know, what their favorite things to do around the [00:14:00] city are, and we’re thinking more holistically about what those events could look like, what, um, that marketing could look like to get more people to Tulsa in different ways.
Justin Harlan: Not that just our remote workers, but other niche industries and also to expand those opportunities for people who have been here their whole lives. And we’re looking forward to just how that plays out. Um, and how we can take what we’ve learned at Tulsa remote and do even bigger and better things with it.
Roderick Hands: Awesome. So, um, you know, Just being, being in Tulsa and people who maybe have grown up here and very, uh, prideful of the state, the city, um, and, and just really, uh, the values that we have in Oklahoma just in general. Uh, so some people actually push back on other people from, you know, uh, other backgrounds and beliefs coming into Tulsa.
Roderick Hands: Um, so touch on that as far as do you feel like that has, um, what kind of impact that has had on the community? Yeah. Absolutely. positive, negative, you know, um, and then, and then maybe your word to people who [00:15:00] maybe view that.
Justin Harlan: Yeah. I appreciate the question. Um, it’s not the first I’ve heard that question, so you’re not, you know, hurting any feelings.
Justin Harlan: I know that there’s kind of that, you know, belief out there. I mean, to me, I think it’s a fascinating question or mindset for a couple of different reasons. So one is. Um, you know, typically when I introduce myself to someone and I’m kind of doing my gauge, I’m not just like, Hey, I’m Justin. What’s your name?
Justin Harlan: All right. Tell me about your values or beliefs. You know, it’s not something that we like dig into. And so to like judge somebody that’s moving here based on what they might believe in your, what you think they might believe, I think is a little bit, uh, shallow. Yeah, I also think that there’s kind of this, uh, you know, notion that, um, the people come from different states or the big cities that we might be attracting people from only think one way.
Justin Harlan: And that’s certainly damaged Oklahoma’s brand in a lot of ways too. And so I would tell us, uh, like if we want more people here, we also, you know, should be open minded about the fact that no matter where you’re from, blue state, red state, whatever, um, there’s [00:16:00] going to be a wide range of beliefs and people and.
Justin Harlan: I’ve lived in Tulsa for 20 years and can think of a lot of different ways that people have looked or people that they’ve loved or the values that they have internally. And, um, I, to put us into one, you know, specific persona, I think is. Not only dangerous, but I would ask ourselves, like, is that actually what we want because it’s not what we’re experiencing right now.
Justin Harlan: And I think that’s beautiful in a lot of ways. And then I’d say, in addition, we’ve actually done some research over the last few years, um, with Harvard. Uh, and we put up this. Uh, event called Tulsa Idea Challenge. And we invited folks to come out if you wanted to learn a bit about, like, how to take your idea and build it into something, like, really great.
Justin Harlan: And what Where was that done? This was done at Oklahoma State University in Tulsa. Uh, this was, uh, a couple falls ago. And what folks didn’t know is that behind the scenes, we were actually re researching the combination of pairings that were going to build up the ideas. [00:17:00] So we had a bunch of new Tulsans.
Justin Harlan: We had a bunch of Long time Tulsans and then we also had some pairs that were a new Tulsan with a long time Tulsan and everybody was assigned randomly Um, but you just basically walked in the door and met your partner, and then you built up a business idea, and what we were assessing is like, is there a pair that rises to the top that’s more effective?
Justin Harlan: What did you find? And we found that, uh, it was the combination pairing that was by far the most successful, um, and social driven. And for us, That might be surprising, but when you really step back and think about that, it’s like, okay, so the longtime Tulsan, um, obviously has a ton of community context, you have relationships that have been built in place and people that, you know, and then the, you know, person that might be new to the city has maybe lived a different life or has different experiences and, um, has context for where they might be coming from, where they might’ve thought about things differently than, What we have thought about in order to solve a specific problem and in [00:18:00] isolation, those two people can only do so much.
Justin Harlan: But when you bring them together, it’s really, I think, the beauty of that pair that makes that idea rise to the top and it really makes it an effective business plan. And I would just challenge us as Tulsans, you know, to think about our city in a similar way where it’s like, we can’t do this alone. And I’d say at.
Justin Harlan: All of the beautiful points of our story, of our city story, it’s been folks that are coming together, kind of being innovative, being resilient and doing this work despite differences where we might see differences as a threat. I would actually encourage us to lean into that as something that can make us even more brilliant as a city.
Justin Harlan: Awesome. So what’s some advice you have for somebody considering Tulsa? I would say, you know, be Clear on what you’re looking for, you know, and then I’m not, I have never said that Tulsa is for everybody, you know, but what I do know is that Tulsa is a city on the rise. I think we’ve got a lot of momentum right now.
Justin Harlan: Um, [00:19:00] it’s a big city. That’s big enough to do the things you’re looking for in. Maybe your bigger city? Professional sports, awesome music scene, lots of James Beard nominations every year. Uh, you know, uh, it’s, but then you also don’t have to deal with the headaches. You can get around pretty easily when there’s not some major construction project going on.
Justin Harlan: It’s, you know, fairly affordable, even in the midst of rising housing costs across the country. Find a place to live. You can get more space for your money. And, you know, there’s financial freedom and there’s also time that comes with moving here, depending on where you’re moving from, obviously, but I think it really, that, uh, financial freedom and time opens up.
Justin Harlan: and I think that we’ve seen that time and time again with our members. And I think if that’s what you’re looking for in life and really thinking about the quality of life that you want, I think Tulsa is an awesome place for a lot of people. Awesome. Uh, so where
Roderick Hands: do people go to either learn, learn more apply?
Roderick Hands: Uh, do you have a cap? Or is it [00:20:00] just, is it open ended as long as you qualify?
Justin Harlan: Yeah, it’s open ended. We’d love to exceed our goals. TulsaRemote. com is a great place to go. We’re also on all of the social media platforms. You can just find us at Tulsa Remote. And, you know, I would just plug our social media, even if you’re a long time Tulsan.
Justin Harlan: We are really trying to curate content that helps people, you know, see the spots to go and the places to visit and the coffee shops to go to. And, you know, I would just, uh, check that out, even if you’re just looking for stuff to do in Tulsa, because that’s something that we’re obviously in the business of branding the city.
Justin Harlan: Yeah. And we’re trying to convince people that this city is an awesome place to be. And so even if you’re here and you’re, and you’ve lived in Tulsa for your whole life, like it’s a great place just to see what’s popping up. Yeah. Awesome.
Roderick Hands: We were so close to Musk. It feels like ages ago, man, and now to think, you know, the type of power he has in our country.
Roderick Hands: It’s wild, so. Uh, so going off of the Tulsa is home brand, um, something we like to ask all of our guests is, you know, why, why is Tulsa home [00:21:00] to you?
Justin Harlan: Yeah, I would say, you know, Tulsa has opened up opportunities for me and my family, um, both with an amazing quality of life in the gathering place, awesome places to eat, professional sports teams to cheer for.
Justin Harlan: My wife and I own some businesses. I don’t think that that would be. possible in a lot of other cities, you really have an opportunity to be a big fish in a small pond and, and you’re a couple of conversations away from somebody who’s really going to be able to make change directly on what you care about.
Justin Harlan: And eventually, if you keep having those conversations, you’re going to end up, you know, in those conversations too. I think that Tulsa has enough people to make it fun and enjoyable and, and create that quality of life that we’re looking for, but also small enough to run into people that you know on the street and, and see those familiar faces.
Justin Harlan: I think that that combination of two things is really unique in our country and we, we love Tulsa for it.
Roderick Hands: Is there anything that you want to touch on that we haven’t really dissected with the program or [00:22:00] any, any highlights that we need to hit? I don’t think
Justin Harlan: so. I mean, I would just say, you know, Our members, we haven’t talked enough about just our members and the chance that they took and kind of relocating their lives and, you know, oftentimes.
Justin Harlan: It goes back to the root of your question earlier, but like they’re met with love and open arms and that’s what we want. There’s also times where they’re not. And I would just say like, before you judge who a Tulsa remoter is, like just meet them as a human being and say, you know, this is a new person in this city that’s trying to fit in and find their niche.
Justin Harlan: The more we can welcome these new folks with open arms, the more likely they are to stick around and ultimately that’s what we all want. So it’s been a beautiful thing for the city and um, we’re grateful that this is such a great place and that we’re able to kind of maximize at the right time. Yeah.
Justin Harlan: Good
Roderick Hands: deal.
Justin Harlan: Well, I appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us. Of course. Thanks for having
me.
